Art is amazing.

[momebie]

You know, it is a matter of personal opinion as to whether or not you like fan fiction. You are allowed to think it's loser-ish and creepy. That's fine. We don't have any control over that. I have real life friends who have let me know in no uncertain terms how they feel about what I do on the internet. Which is also fine. I'm not asking them to read or enjoy it. We as a fandom are not asking the authors to read and enjoy our efforts based on their works, either. There may be a few people who want that attention, but please treat them on a case by case basis. There is no group on the planet that can speak for every one of its individual members.

What it is not okay to do, is decide that fan fiction is tantamount to any kind of rape. Because it's not. Rape is about power and control and inflicting pain on another person. Fan fiction is about creativity and excitement and wanting to explore a text. What you are doing by suggesting that people who write fan fiction are raping your mind or creativity, is trying to beg sympathy for yourself on an issue where you feel shaky in your moral justification. It's the same tactic politicians use when they get people to focus on abortion or god instead of actual issues at hand.

And the thing about art. The very best thing about art. Is that it never stays the same. Once it leaves your pen or your brush or your digital audio file creator thingamajig, it becomes a part of the world. It is out there to be manipulated and analyzed. And good art will be. Art that makes people think something or feel something will be taken and turned over and studied and changed. It's why people enjoy parody novels and media tie in novels. It's why people enjoy songs that are remixed and covered. It's why people try to paint after the style of a certain painter. It happens. It's amazing. It is not harmful to you or your work. You have already said what you have to say. Let the art speak for itself now. Let the people speak for how they feel about the art.

Also. I make my living mucking about in copyright and determining when we can get around it. COPYRIGHT DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY.

*ahem* *kicks away soap box*

This post is unlocked.

Comments

[laetificat.livejournal.com]

You are completely right.

Art cannot exist in a vacuum. You can try all you want as an author or an artist but you cannot control what your reader or viewer will think. The moment you do, it stops being art and starts being brainwashing. And that's the coolest thing about art, like you said -- that something can be seen through a trillion million thousand lenses.

If someday someone writes fanfic about my novels, I would take it as a compliment. I wouldn't ever, ever, ever read it (too many issues there), but to think that someone engaged with my work on such a close level that they would want to explore my themes, characters and universe further? That's an awesome compliment.

[momebie.livejournal.com]

Ever since I've learned about fan fiction, even before I started playing with it, I thought that it was cool and flattering. I cannot wait to publish something and see if it gets a fan base. (Em and I have discussed writing horrible Mary Sue fic about the steampunk if it ever gets picked up, just to fuck with people.) A fan base is what almost everyone who produces wants. It is very enjoyable in and of itself to create something. It is enjoyable on a whole other level to have someone else recognize that.
But no, I don't think authors should read the fic that's produced about their works. Among other things, people could accuse them of stealing plot points and that gets sticky.

[brilligspoons.livejournal.com]

HERE HERE. I agree COMPLETELY.


May I ask what brought this on?

[momebie.livejournal.com]

This was brought on by Diana Gabaldon's recent post (http://voyagesoftheartemis.blogspot.com/2010/05/fan-fiction-and-moral-conundrums.html) about how fan fic of her works is abusive on several levels. And how she feels it's illegal, which is out and out wrong.

I've never read anything by her, but I really won't be now.

[swagneto.livejournal.com]

I'm sorry, what? People compare fanfiction to rape? What the fuck is wrong with people?

This, this, fucking this. This post is the most well-articulated piece I've read defending fandom and fanfiction. A+

[momebie.livejournal.com]

That's an argument I've heard several times, actually, and every time it makes me angry close to tears. My humble opinion is that anyone who feels that way doesn't understand rape. And honestly I'm glad they don't. I'm glad that (I assume) it's never been an issue for them if this is what they have to bitch about. But really people, let's get our facts straight before we start pretending to be an authority on the internet.

Thanks hon. It's just come up on my flist several times in the last couple days and I felt bad just rehashing the same lines over and over again, so I thought I'd get them out in one place.

[quarterturn.livejournal.com]

IL EVERYTHING ABOUT THIS POST. \o/

[momebie.livejournal.com]

THANK YOU. WATCH ME AS I AM ANNOYED. RAR, KL SMASH.

[spessartine.livejournal.com]

I couldn't agree more. And I have told my students at uni as much. I can ALWAYS tell the ones who write fanfiction, because they are better than the others.

[momebie.livejournal.com]

Fan fiction has helped me figure out a lot about writing and what works for me and what doesn't. It's a place to experiment and get instant feedback. And as pinkfinity said in her post (http://pinkfinity.livejournal.com/1167406.html), there are lots of fan fic authors who hone their skills and move on to being published. From where I'm sitting, there's nothing bad about learning with the tools you have in front of you.

[elessar.livejournal.com]

...someone seriously compared fan fiction to rape? I don't even. Just. What.

I agree, the world of art and fiction is an ever-changing world. The realm of art and creativity is kind of like a combination of dialogue and reactions. When you study art or fiction in school you learn that there aren't really distinct bodies of work. Everything draws inspiration or reacts to something that's already existed before it. That's kind of like fan fiction, in a way. The only difference is that we are using a medium that's already in existence and not really creating our own characters. But I mean, people make profit off of fanfiction and write really brilliant works out of it. I don't think it's fair to discredit one group of fanfiction authors from another just because some of us write it for fun while the others acquired copyrights in order to publish their writings.

[momebie.livejournal.com]

I've actually seen it done several times, and every time it frustrates and angers me. But alas, I am not important because I write fan fiction and therefore am a rapist myself. May god have mercy on my soul. (The thing that's got me annoyed today though, is this post (http://voyagesoftheartemis.blogspot.com/2010/05/fan-fiction-and-moral-conundrums.html).)

That discrimination of one group over another is what has me confused about her real motive in arguing this. She states in her post that it's okay to write and make money off of fan fiction based on works in the public domain. If your argument is that fan fiction is IMMORAL, then how is it less so simply because the author is dead. You're still defiling his legacy. If your argument is that you're LOSING MONEY because of fan fiction and it's STEALING (as she's stated), then you need to fucking come out and say it and not hide behind some sort of fake superiority. But she can't, because odds are she is making money rather than losing money because of fic, no matter how well it's written.

[blamebrampton.livejournal.com]

I'm just astonished she didn't break out Hitler ...

And EXCELLENT POST!

[momebie.livejournal.com]

I'm actually more astonished that the comments haven't mentioned him. There are some entitled fucking people running around there. I got a headache trying to get through them.

Thank you. It's something I think about from time to time, and I felt bad just rehashing the same lines in discussing this issue with my flist, so I figured I'd collect it all in one place.

[fleurdeliser.livejournal.com]

As I told someone else, I have a hard time believing that people who take such a hard and fast line against fanfic and things have ever experienced being a FAN of something. Of loving a work of fiction or art or music or whatever so much you don't want to stop experiencing it.

Anyway. Yes. I very much agree with this post.

[momebie.livejournal.com]

I do too. And she mentions that it's okay to THINK about ways that you would like to engage with the text, but she doesn't feel it's okay to actually engage with them? How much love can you let sit before it turns into something else?

[liriaen.livejournal.com]

It is out there to be manipulated and analyzed. Whether it wants to or not.

--> Palimpsests (http://www.amazon.de/Palimpsests-Literature-Second-Degree-Stages/dp/0803270291)
--> The Anxiety of Influence (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Anxiety_of_Influence)

[momebie.livejournal.com]

Whether it wants to or not indeed. In my pretentious college days, one of my favorite things to get drunk in dive bars and talk about was the way art changes.

While admitting the influence of extraliterary experience on every poet, he argues that "the poet in a poet" is inspired to write by reading another poet's poetry and will tend to produce work that is derivative of existing poetry, and, therefore, weak.

Speaking directly to the problem at hand, a lot of fan fiction is weaker than the text it is imitating or parodying, but even we have those people who will break through with derivative works and go on to make complex and interesting works of their own that make it into print. This does not mean that it is more okay for those people than it is for others.

Criticism and reworking are not in and of themselves 'bad' things. It's what you take from it. And honestly, if you're going to be an artist, you need a thicker fucking skin than she is displaying.

Uh...but that's just my opinion. (And thanks for the links, those are definitely relevant to my interests.)

[bewize.livejournal.com]

Preach it, sister, preach it! *raises hands*

[momebie.livejournal.com]

I AM JUST JOINING THE CHOIR.

[holly-evolving.livejournal.com]

You know...Madonna once wondered how long it would take for Weird Al to write "Like a Surgeon." Which is why he did it at all.

If no one is taking your ideas and running with them, then they aren't very good ideas, are they? I don't think Vermeer would have minded the novel or the movie about Girl With a Pearl Earring.

Edit: for the record, I'm not into any fandom beyond parody. But that's only because it's not my thing.

[momebie.livejournal.com]

I'm actually really glad to hear from someone who's not in fandom. It's easy for someone to say that I'm over-invested. And maybe I am, but that doesn't change the way art works in conversation. I thought parody and derivative works were interesting for what they said about the original work long before I knew about fandom. I am, and always have been, a huge fan of ridiculous covers of songs, for instance.

[philosiraptors.livejournal.com]

JESUS, THANK YOU FOR THIS POST.

[momebie.livejournal.com]

DUDE, THERE WAS SOMEONE BEING WRONG ON THE INTERNET. YOU KNOW WE CAN'T LET THAT SHIT STAND.

[kickingrad.livejournal.com]

Urgh, yes, a million times yes.

[momebie.livejournal.com]

Let's all just go drink and make up ridiculous filks of songs we love. 99 Batarangs anyone?

[flo-nelja.livejournal.com]

Each time I read these arguments, I fail to understand while something which was so wrong and in contradiction with every moral rule which make our civilization stand in (^^;;) becomes suddenly totally OK exactly the day 75 years after the author's death. Or any arbitrary duration the law has chosen at this point. ^^;;

[momebie.livejournal.com]

That is the part of her argument that has me the most confused, to be honest. And I doubt we'll get an explanation that makes any sense.

[roadrunner1896.livejournal.com]

The good thing is, I got strike her books of my "to read" list. Money and time saved.

[momebie.livejournal.com]

Exactly. Makes room for lots of other things.

[brilliant-snark.livejournal.com]

I just...argh...grrr...ack...

I wasted HALF MY WORKDAY today reading her post, and most of the comments, and all my friends journals, and all the comments on those posts, and I just keep getting more ill. I mean, REALLY??? Makes me glad I gave up and walked away after book...3 I think? With Anne Rice, I was like, "Hey, I can respect your feelings, even though I disagree". And I still read her stuff. When it was my thing. But this? This blatant and petty insulting of so many fans? Calling us criminals and pervs? Everything else? I just...*fumes*

[lady-ganesh.livejournal.com]

Don't forget the internet lawyering. Including the extensive citing of that well-known international legal resource, Wikipedia.

[soundandvision.livejournal.com]

I don't understand how anyone can draw any comparison to rape and fanfiction. It's completely illogical. Fanfiction should be flattering to an author (or creator)--it means your work has done what every artist hopes to accomplish. It inspires. Furthermore most fanfiction does not gain any kind of profit from their work and certainly doesn't detract from the original (quite the opposite, it adds to it with even more fervor). I totally agree that once you put something out into the world the world is going to absorb it. It's going to become something that is passed along from stream of consciousness to another, to be edited and slashed and re-born from the ashes and twisted and stretched into so many different and similar things. That's just what art is.

And it's totally a chump move for someone to complain after they've put their work out there and they don't like the critical reactions. As my fiction mentor @ Uni always told us you have to put out your work and be at peace with it--you can't defend what you've written you have to let it defend itself. There are no second chances.

[seratonation.livejournal.com]

i have nothing to say that hant been said already.

except to say YES to the getting fan fiction about my own fiction! oh man there is such a big part of me hoping if i ever publish fiction itll get a fanbase. i dont care how small, but id love to be part it, to share ideas abut how i thought it mightve gone, and what ideas other have about how things could have gone, things i wouldnt have hought of and omg, how cool would that be! i want to shatter the line between canon and fanon because id love to interact with my fans on that level. *sigh* that would be such a dream come true.

'course, as a fan myself (in general, fan of things), im a bit biasd :P

[lady-ganesh.livejournal.com]

Have you read the fandom_wank post? Some of the snark there is hilarious.

[verdenia.livejournal.com]

Art IS amazing. Fan fic is great.

Fantastic post...though I'm sorry someone was being so dumb as to put rape into the discussion!